"20" is so over-rated among Travis fans it's not even funny. Not a bad song, but I feel like half the time people would be willing to trade the entire Travis catalog just for that track!
"20" is a b-side. Bonus tracks don't count as a-sides. If that were the case, "You Don't Know What I'm Like", "Ring Out The Bell," "Beautiful," "Definition Of Wrong,", "12th Memory," "Be My Baby," and both WTRY remixes would all be "album tracks." And that's just silly. :)
I've noticed it's always one of the top played songs on your site. Lyrically it's quite moving and it's a nice song but yeah, it's not one of my top songs.
I guess I could go along with them being bonus tracks. But if they're on the album I don't consider them B sides. Why then is "Blue Flashing Light" an album track?
That's a good question. I think when the guys sit down to make out a track list and running order, they very clearly have an idea of what they want to be on the "album." And I think sometimes that includes songs purposefully hidden at the end (BFL, Some Sad Song, Sailing Away). I think the other hidden tracks (Definition of Wrong, "20") are included by the label to entice buyers into getting the album.
Not to mention the "true" hidden album tracks aren't available anywhere else except on the albums they are part of. BFL is only available on various versions of The Man Who. The same goes for SSS and SA. Whereas, "20" was included on the AIWTDIR single, as a b-side. Usually, once a b-side, always a b-side.
20 is on an album? Never heard that before - care to explain?
The Man Who
At the end of "Slide Show" (at least on the US version)
Edit: I just asked Nikki who has The Man Who and she doesn't have 20 on her album. My mind is totally tripped out. I swear it's on there. I am listening to right now. It's right after "Blue Flashing Light." And then there is "Only Molly Knows" after "20."
Edit to my Edit: I think Nikki must have the UK version because I was looking on travisography and "Only Molly Knows" is listed as on the US version. But oddly 20 isn't.
I ran upstairs to find mine...just Blue Flashing Light.
Wooooow! "Life And Soul" is makin' a comeback! Good! I totally agree that "20" is WAAAY overrated. Don't get me wrong, it's a great song...but come on...there are so many better tracks.
Yes, it's true that the only hidden track on my copy of The Man Who is "Blue Flashing Light"...but how could I have the UK version when I bought it at some store in the US back in, oh...2000? I'm confused now. Anne, you must have bought some super deluxe version maybe they were doing as a promo for a while in 2001 when you bought it. But that still doesn't clear up whether "20" and "Only Molly Knows" are B-side or not. If they were both hidden tracks on an album at some point, regardless of whether it's on everybody's copy or not, it's not a B-side. It's a hidden track just like "Blue Flashing Light", "Sailing Away" and "Some Sad Song"....and therefore should be automatically disqualified from this competition!!!!!! :P j/k. It is interesting though....hmmm. Maybe Fran can help us out.
EDIT: Joe, I just read your post above mine. Sorry I missed your explanation. That clears things up a bit. I get what you're saying...I think. :P
I vote for 20.
It's not my favourite B-side, but it'd make my top 10 I think. I like it much more than Life And Soul Of The Party, which is a nice tune but not one of my favourites.
Wooooow! "Life And Soul" is makin' a comeback! Good! I totally agree that "20" is WAAAY overrated. Don't get me wrong, it's a great song...but come on...there are so many better tracks.
"20" technically isn't really a Travis song. It's only Fran on the recorded version (apart from a wee extra guitar bit- but even then, where are Dougie and Neil??) Thus, Life and Soul should win by DEFAULT ;)
Hmmmm...
20 is getting back ahead.
Do you think Luke would notice if I voted for Life and Soul of The Party
again?
hah, nice try. What you could do though, if you have uber hacking skills, is edit my post and put "vote for the track you wish to lose" xD
paul_c wrote:
Nikki wrote:
Wooooow! "Life And Soul" is makin' a comeback! Good! I totally agree that "20" is WAAAY overrated. Don't get me wrong, it's a great song...but come on...there are so many better tracks.
"20" technically isn't really a Travis song. It's only Fran on the recorded version (apart from a wee extra guitar bit- but even then, where are Dougie and Neil??) Thus, Life and Soul should win by DEFAULT ;)
Plus, it's far more fun to play
Hmm... write me an essay on how '20' isn't a Travis track, back it up with viable references, and if I'm convinced I may 'accidentally' delete it from the battle.
Wooooow! "Life And Soul" is makin' a comeback! Good! I totally agree that "20" is WAAAY overrated. Don't get me wrong, it's a great song...but come on...there are so many better tracks.
"20" technically isn't really a Travis song. It's only Fran on the recorded version (apart from a wee extra guitar bit- but even then, where are Dougie and Neil??) Thus, Life and Soul should win by DEFAULT ;)
Hmm... write me an essay on how '20' isn't a Travis track, back it up with viable references, and if I'm convinced I may 'accidentally' delete it from the battle.
Here goes nothing...
"20" is not a Travis song because, well for a start it only features 1 member of Travis (Fran). There is a second guitar part on the track, but it is unclear as to which other member of the band contributed this part. On the albums, there are normally parts in the inlay which declare who played what on which track- yet since "20" is a b-side, there is no such information provided on the inlay sleeve of the All I Want To Do Is Rock CD single from which it originated. Plus, i've never seen (or heard of) a full band performance of the song in question.
There is also well documented evidence from Fran speaking at gigs in which he states that HE wrote the song when he was turning from the dreaded nineteen to twenty. Let's do some math here... Fran is going to be 35. It is 2008. 35 minus 19 (Fran's age when he wrote the song subtracted from his age now) gives us 16. 2008 minus 16 is 1992. That is, 16 years ago from 2008 takes us back to 1992, when if you check the records TRAVIS DIDN'T EXIST.
Thus, it is clear for all to see that your beloved "20" song (don't get me wrong- love it, but Life and Soul rules!) is in fact a sham and a fraud. And a sham. Negate all votes Mr TTRY. Life and Soul of the Party wins by default.
20 is a Travis B-side because it is a B-side to a Travis single, with the artist title being Travis, not Fran Healy.
It is irrelevant when it was written, just the date when it was recorded.
Evidence on why 20 is a B-side.
From Travis: Closer Every Year Book, page 61:-
(On 20) - "It's about sitting in your English class when you're 13, staring at the ceiling, and thinking about how crap it is. Then it goes to 14 and fancying a girl at school, then to 15 when your parents are shouting at you... nothing that should get binned ever gets used as B-SIDES with us. It's just a really nice song." - Fran Healy
So Fran himself there is basically saying that 20 is a B-side. So technically I would tend to agree with him on this. Sorry.
That and the fact that it's been used in this competition from the 1st round to this round without being contested, but now the writing's on the wall, and now that it looks like 20 will be deservedly crowned, people are starting to try and find room for wriggling =D
Hmm... write me an essay on how '20' isn't a Travis track, back it up with viable references, and if I'm convinced I may 'accidentally' delete it from the battle.
Here goes nothing...
"20" is not a Travis song because, well for a start it only features 1 member of Travis (Fran). There is a second guitar part on the track, but it is unclear as to which other member of the band contributed this part. On the albums, there are normally parts in the inlay which declare who played what on which track- yet since "20" is a b-side, there is no such information provided on the inlay sleeve of the All I Want To Do Is Rock CD single from which it originated. Plus, i've never seen (or heard of) a full band performance of the song in question.
There is also well documented evidence from Fran speaking at gigs in which he states that HE wrote the song when he was turning from the dreaded nineteen to twenty. Let's do some math here... Fran is going to be 35. It is 2008. 35 minus 19 (Fran's age when he wrote the song subtracted from his age now) gives us 16. 2008 minus 16 is 1992. That is, 16 years ago from 2008 takes us back to 1992, when if you check the records TRAVIS DIDN'T EXIST.
Thus, it is clear for all to see that your beloved "20" song (don't get me wrong- love it, but Life and Soul rules!) is in fact a sham and a fraud. And a sham. Negate all votes Mr TTRY. Life and Soul of the Party wins by default.
ps. Nikki, back me up here... lol
Ah, a most interesting read sir. However! There is a lack of evidence supporting the notions that other members of Travis did not contribute to the recording of ‘20’. Indeed, it was written exclusively by Mr Healy, but then he is the primary songwriter of the band. Furthermore, and perhaps more importantly, the song ‘20’ was nevertheless distributed under the band name (and brand name) ‘Travis’. Hence, at the end of the day, ‘20’ must be considered ‘Travis’ material.
Still, if it makes you feel any better, I'll award LASOTP: "The-best-b-side-that-was-written-when-Travis-existed-as-a-band-and-is-peformed-by-all-members-of-the-group" award.
Hmm... write me an essay on how '20' isn't a Travis track, back it up with viable references, and if I'm convinced I may 'accidentally' delete it from the battle.
Here goes nothing...
"20" is not a Travis song because, well for a start it only features 1 member of Travis (Fran). There is a second guitar part on the track, but it is unclear as to which other member of the band contributed this part. On the albums, there are normally parts in the inlay which declare who played what on which track- yet since "20" is a b-side, there is no such information provided on the inlay sleeve of the All I Want To Do Is Rock CD single from which it originated. Plus, i've never seen (or heard of) a full band performance of the song in question.
There is also well documented evidence from Fran speaking at gigs in which he states that HE wrote the song when he was turning from the dreaded nineteen to twenty. Let's do some math here... Fran is going to be 35. It is 2008. 35 minus 19 (Fran's age when he wrote the song subtracted from his age now) gives us 16. 2008 minus 16 is 1992. That is, 16 years ago from 2008 takes us back to 1992, when if you check the records TRAVIS DIDN'T EXIST.
Thus, it is clear for all to see that your beloved "20" song (don't get me wrong- love it, but Life and Soul rules!) is in fact a sham and a fraud. And a sham. Negate all votes Mr TTRY. Life and Soul of the Party wins by default.
ps. Nikki, back me up here... lol
Ah, a most interesting read sir. However! There is a lack of evidence supporting the notions that other members of Travis did not contribute to the recording of ‘20’. Indeed, it was written exclusively by Mr Healy, but then he is the primary songwriter of the band. Furthermore, and perhaps more importantly, the song ‘20’ was nevertheless distributed under the band name (and brand name) ‘Travis’. Hence, at the end of the day, ‘20’ must be considered ‘Travis’ material.
Still, if it makes you feel any better, I'll award LASOTP: "The-best-b-side-that-was-written-when-Travis-existed-as-a-band-and-is-peformed-by-all-members-of-the-group" award.
Ok...but what about the fact that it's a hidden track on some versions of The Man Who?!? Hidden tracks are NOT B-Sides in this competition!! Where's "Blue Flashing Light" for example?! Hmmm???
So Fran himself there is basically saying that 20 is a B-side. So technically I would tend to agree with him on this. Sorry.
Pfft. What are you on about? TTRY can argue well enough without you helping! :)
Typing to Reach You wrote:
Still, if it makes you feel any better, I'll award LASOTP: "The-best-b-side-that-was-written-when-Travis-existed-as-a-band-and-is-peformed-by-all-members-of-the-group" award.
