Believe it or not, I enjoyed a lot reading all your comments here.
I think I can understand Ben's point (not completely but yes, I do) definitely Ben can't be accused of being selfish, of course not! but his perspective about gigs in UK is different than ours...
hennypenny wrote:
Ben, I think most people are reacting to the number. Twenty shows in one year for a place the size of the UK seems like alot to people who have to travel long distances just to see one show every 5 years. I would probably feel the same way as you if I lived there. I'd want more shows too.
Agree with Lindsay :) That's the point!
In my case, since a south american position 20 gigs in 2 years is a dreamy number (mouth water maker, as Juli said haha) but not for british people who has other expectatives because context where their live, don't blame them (I mean, Ben :P haha)
leticia wrote:
I Came in Through the Bathroom Window wrote:
But just the thought of 20 Travis gigs in two years makes my mouth water, lol.
To answer the question that Paul C raised 4 pages ago, the answer is a resounding YES!
Poor Ben has had to fend off the entire world, to defend his arguments, and he really doesn't deserve the bashing that he took!
Here's the thing: he is NOT, repeat NOT, making selfish demands of Travis. Ben has perceived, and I totally agree with him, a shifting of loyalties of this band around the fans who launched them. And it hurts.
Add to this, I suspect the UK has a different gig culture to other countries. Forgive me, I'm only guessing here, and I may be wrong but this is how I see it.
The reason we expect more gigs is because we have an abundance of excellent small to medium sized venues, and home grown bands (and yes, that issue is extremely relevant) who revel in playing to local crowds. It's a show of mutual appreciation between artists and fans. We're not talking stadium blow out gigs, just intimate sessions.
Aforementioned bands such as Athlete and Elbow absolutely saturate their UK fans with gigs before boarding planes to entertain their overseas fans. Then they come home and do it all again before the break and the next lot of writing. No set of fans is more important than the other as people, but there is an understanding that the British bands get more of the British bands than other countries do. End of. And it works both ways. I have only managed to see one American band in many many years of gig going. So I see myself as a lucky Elbow and Athlete fan, and less so as regards the overseas bands that I like.
Ben's not being xenophobic, he is responding to a cultural norm, which Travis have deviated from in recent years. That is their right entirely, but we don't have to be happy about it.
20 UK gigs in 2 years, with two albums to promote in that time, is paltry, if not utterly crap.
I'm no xenophobe, and I do travel to gigs around the UK and Europe. However, back to the simple answer to Paul's simple question: yes, it feels like chronic neglect. And it makes me angry and disappointed.
Add to this, I suspect the UK has a different gig culture to other countries. Forgive me, I'm only guessing here, and I may be wrong but this is how I see it.
Hi Tonie! I see your point. But I think that Travis is not coming to South America not because of gig culture. I'm not sure about what you mean by it, but there are loads of venues for them to play here (small, medium-sized, huge). And when these kinds of bands come to Argentina, they have a big turn out, everyone in the country (and bordering countries too : ) travel miles and miles and spend a lot of money too to see their favourite band. The problem here is that there are no sponsors that can bring them. How can I say it... erm... There's no money!!!! *keeps crying*
Well, perhaps I'm wrong... third world country fellows? What do you think?
Alex...size doesn't matter, but it's important... lol!
Add to this, I suspect the UK has a different gig culture to other countries. Forgive me, I'm only guessing here, and I may be wrong but this is how I see it.
Hi Tonie! I see your point. But I think that Travis is not coming to South America not because of gig culture. I'm not sure about what you mean by it, but there are loads of venues for them to play here (small, medium-sized, huge). And when these kinds of bands come to Argentina, they have a big turn out, everyone in the country (and bordering countries too : ) travel miles and miles and spend a lot of money too to see their favourite band. The problem here is that there are no sponsors that can bring them. How can I say it... erm... There's no money!!!! *keeps crying*
Well, perhaps I'm wrong... third world country fellows? What do you think?
It's not worth sobbing over. Really. However, I just think that we're coming at the situation with different expectations. Both may be viable, and I don't disregard how you're feeling towards this. However, the question is specifically about UK gigs. There's been so few in the context of what are normal expectations, that the UK fans are disgruntled.
I found it particularly galling that the one tour we got for the last album was before it came out.
Now i dont know if this is true or not.
However i did hear that the reason there has not been a follow up tour (as all british bands do here) since the album . Is because they felt that the album was not well received.
Now IF that is true then that is an abysmal reason.
How on earth is a new album going to go down well if people are only hearing songs for the first time?
Hey, good objection, Ben. But I don't agree with you. I've been on holidays in Scotland for two weeks (I'm back since yesterday), and before I went I had asked for radio stations which are playing Travis here on the board. Here is the results: NOPE!! 14 days listening to the radio... in vain. I have to consider that I actually had a lot of problems to find radio stations in the Highlands at all... LOL
But all over the country, it seems that Travis doesn't exist... So I think you can be glad to have 20 gigs in one year, accounting for that!! We can be proud of our guys that they give us so many gigs. For me, the anticipation of the next gig is always a special time, regardless of how long it is. The main thing is that they come again!
Thank you very much Tonie for the support. It was difficult having to defend my fair opinion against seemingly everyone else but I stick by what I said and agree with you 100%. The fact they're a British band and have sold more in our little country than the rest of this earth put together should mean something! We may get more gigs than other countries but we don't get many more tours. That's the crucial thing here. It's not a couple every month. We have months and months to wait for gigs. Looking like it'll pass the one year mark this time. And I myself also pointed out that being a big fan of The Shins, I know what it's like to have to wait a long time. And I understand why!
It was difficult enough having to fend off suggestions of selfishness, greed etc. When people start suggesting "you get more gigs in the UK than the rest of us put together", it becomes almost impossible. We can all make stuff up to suit our side of the debate/argument. ;)
When people start suggesting "you get more gigs in the UK than the rest of us put together", it becomes almost impossible. We can all make stuff up to suit our side of the debate/argument. ;)
Thanks again Tonie. :)
So when people don't agree with you, they're just making stuff up? This is just a discussion, not a matter of wrong or right Ben. I want to stop debating against you, but I keep finding stuff in your arguments that upsets me :P
I haven't said anything negative against you personally, I just don't think that the U.K should be treated differently than other countries based upon record sales and that it's their home. I also believe that Travis don't have in mind to neglect you, they're probably just tired after a long tour. They will probably start the next tour with UK gigs.
Ben's not being xenophobic, he is responding to a cultural norm, which Travis have deviated from in recent years. That is their right entirely, but we don't have to be happy about it.
I don't think anyone here believes Ben is being xenophobic, considering he's friends with most if not all of the people who replied to this thread and we're all from different countries other than UK... Actually, I don't think anyone's being xenophobic. It's just a debate and it shouldn't be taken personally.
I don't agree with your point of view or Ben's, but it's cool that other people that agree with him start posting here.
I just wanted to clarify that thing about people being xenophobic. I think that's pushing things too far, that's all.
