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Andrew Posted Sun 01 Jul, 2007 2:30 PM |
Esteban wrote: Footnote :- Don't everyone gang up on this Lulu person demanding a response and a justification of what she said. How intimidated do you think she feels now?
Sorry but we shouldn't criticise what she said because it might hurt her feelings?
Personally I'm of the opinion it's just a case of ignorance and probably a good bit of getting information fed to her from the wrong sources as opposed to her being genuinely nasty.
But I've done work with an asylum seeker support group in the past and most of the problems in this county surrounding immigration are not caused by the asylum seekers but instead by uneducated and ignorant natives, and if anyone wishes to debate this further I will quite happily do it in another thread specifically about immigration in the UK.
(P.S. Yes I noted the 'devils advocate' comment )
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Andrew Posted Sun 01 Jul, 2007 2:32 PM |
| ...and returning to the original topic. I live in the flight path and it sounds like Glasgow Airport's back open again and taking plenty of flights. Good to see the disruption hasn't lasted. |
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Esteban Posted Sun 01 Jul, 2007 2:38 PM |
lilly wrote: Esteban wrote:
I don't believe that this is the place where we should look to 'educate' people, there are far more appropriate places for that. It's an internet message board, a bit of fun. Sure, what she said could reflect that she's as racist as it gets, but who are we to be the arbiters of that?
I'm sure no one here wants to "educate" her. That's really not our business.
But surely it's important to call her attention(!) to her own words. That's all, you know. But I think all those comments on her words might have managed that by now...
Err. And don't you think every place is the place to keep your ears and eyes open for comments that are offending, racist, etc. If we always say "oh, now is not the time" and "this is not the place"... ... ???
Scottish Dubliner wrote: I just thought it was getting a little "heavy", which is exactly the kind of tactics used by certain racist groups, and thought that we should rise above that and re-educate rather than lambast, because if we don't then surely we are just as guilty ??
Lemon Grinner wrote:
Re-educating is a better option aye, I agree with yer.
2 comments suggesting education. From this page.
What is it to you personally if someone on the internet has opinions that you don't like? Are you personally given some kind of right to question other people's beliefs against the yardstick of political correctness that is your own opinion? I'm intrigued.
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lilly Posted Sun 01 Jul, 2007 2:39 PM |
Andrew wrote:
But I've done work with an asylum seeker support group in the past and most of the problems in this county surrounding immigration are not caused by the asylum seekers but instead by uneducated and ignorant natives, and if anyone wishes to debate this further I will quite happily do it in another thread specifically about immigration in the UK.
It's just the same here, of course... |
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Esteban Posted Sun 01 Jul, 2007 2:39 PM |
Andrew wrote: Personally I'm of the opinion it's just a case of ignorance and probably a good bit of getting information fed to her from the wrong sources as opposed to her being genuinely nasty.
I'm sure the Daily Mail has a hand in it somewhere. |
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lilly Posted Sun 01 Jul, 2007 2:48 PM |
Esteban wrote:
Are you personally given some kind of right to question other people's beliefs against the yardstick of political correctness that is your own opinion? I'm intrigued.
I'm sorry, but there's "political opinion", and there's stupidity/ignorance.
And there's a HUGE difference between saying "Don't you want to THINK before you come up with ignorant comments?" and saying "You are pro-war, and that's just wrong" (that would be "using my yardstick to question other people's beliefs"). |
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Scottish Dubliner Posted Sun 01 Jul, 2007 2:50 PM |
feri wrote: Scottish Dubliner wrote:
I don't think she owes anyone an explaination, this board is about freedom of speech and that means saying what you like, even if people don't agree with it.
I do find the comment racist, but I also wonder if it was a case of being taken out of context or speaking without thinking first. Or it could be a comment on illegal immigrants that hasn't been voiced particularly well.
Lol, 'freedom of speech' has become a joke. There is a limit to everything, it's like me saying something anti-semitic and then use the 'Oh it's just my opinion, freedom of speech'.
Fuck 'em, the lot of them, I will continue to say what I like about whichever group of people/race/creed/religion is annoying me.
An example would be Isaac Hayes quitting South Park because they took the piss out of Scientology, what so it was ok when they were slagging Jews, Christians, Muslims, Blacks, gays etc...??
Either you stand up for the right to say stuff and suffer the consequences or you sit down and shut the fuck up.
btw. not you personally, but society. |
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lilly Posted Sun 01 Jul, 2007 2:51 PM |
| oh, and I forgot that I had just ignored the re-educating comments before. so, sorry, it seems that some people really suggested educating her in a certain "direction". |
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Scottish Dubliner Posted Sun 01 Jul, 2007 2:53 PM |
Esteban wrote:
[quote="Scottish Dubliner"] I just thought it was getting a little "heavy", which is exactly the kind of tactics used by certain racist groups, and thought that we should rise above that and re-educate rather than lambast, because if we do
2 comments suggesting education. From this page.
What is it to you personally if someone on the internet has opinions that you don't like? Are you personally given some kind of right to question other people's beliefs against the yardstick of political correctness that is your own opinion? I'm intrigued.
Educate was probably the wrong word to use, perhas a better way of putting it would be to "present your arguement" against whatever belief said person has. Then if they don't agree with you then that's your tough shit.
btw It's of no consequence to me what a person believes, in fact even if I disagree I will still fight for that persons right to voice it |
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Esteban Posted Sun 01 Jul, 2007 2:58 PM |
Scottish Dubliner wrote: Esteban wrote: lilly wrote: Esteban wrote:
I don't believe that this is the place where we should look to 'educate' people, there are far more appropriate places for that. It's an internet message board, a bit of fun. Sure, what she said could reflect that she's as racist as it gets, but who are we to be the arbiters of that?
I'm sure no one here wants to "educate" her. That's really not our business.
But surely it's important to call her attention(!) to her own words. That's all, you know. But I think all those comments on her words might have managed that by now...
Err. And don't you think every place is the place to keep your ears and eyes open for comments that are offending, racist, etc. If we always say "oh, now is not the time" and "this is not the place"... ... ???
Scottish Dubliner wrote: I just thought it was getting a little "heavy", which is exactly the kind of tactics used by certain racist groups, and thought that we should rise above that and re-educate rather than lambast, because if we don't then surely we are just as guilty ?? Lemon Grinner wrote:
Re-educating is a better option aye, I agree with yer.
2 comments suggesting education. From this page.
What is it to you personally if someone on the internet has opinions that you don't like? Are you personally given some kind of right to question other people's beliefs against the yardstick of political correctness that is your own opinion? I'm intrigued.
Educate was probably the wrong word to use, perhas a better way of putting it would be to "present your arguement" against whatever belief said person has.
btw It's of no consequence to me what a person believes, in fact even if I disagree I will fight for that persons right to voice it
I'm all for a big debate, as long as it doesn't lead to the situation where people are being hounded for justifications of their own words by more than one person, or even worse publically persecuted for their opinion.
Maybe the poster of said material isn't as thick-skinned as the rest of us and wouldn't want to come back to this thread and contribute further. |
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la femme qui Posted Sun 01 Jul, 2007 3:03 PM |
Esteban wrote: What is it to you personally if someone on the internet has opinions that you don't like? Are you personally given some kind of right to question other people's beliefs against the yardstick of political correctness that is your own opinion? I'm intrigued.
Ahh I think I've spotted a vicious circle here! There's just no escaping one when it comes to stating opinions or defending the opinions stated... let me ask you, what is with you personally if someone on the internet has opinions about someone else's opinions that you don't like?
See, I'm doing it too! It's fun, it really is! |
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Scottish Dubliner Posted Sun 01 Jul, 2007 3:05 PM |
I agree which was why I posted in the first place, I felt it was turning into a lynching of said person... hmmm sounds familiar.
Hmmm can you be rascist against racists ?? |
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lilly Posted Sun 01 Jul, 2007 3:06 PM |
Scottish Dubliner wrote:
btw It's of no consequence to me what a person believes, in fact even if I disagree I will fight for that persons right to voice it
...as long as that person's opinion doesn't violate another person's rights or dignity. ? |
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Scottish Dubliner Posted Sun 01 Jul, 2007 3:09 PM |
lilly wrote: Scottish Dubliner wrote:
btw It's of no consequence to me what a person believes, in fact even if I disagree I will fight for that persons right to voice it
...as long as that person's opinion doesn't violate another person's rights or dignity. ?
Your rights and dignity cannot be affect by what someone says, by their actions and the actions of others who have taken it onboard but not by the words themselves. |
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lilly Posted Sun 01 Jul, 2007 3:10 PM |
Scottish Dubliner wrote: Hmmm can you be rascist against racists ??
Of course you can be. Which is, of course, just as bad.
But asking someone to think can't hurt? ;) |
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