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Hanne Posted Thu 26 Jul, 2007 9:14 PM |
You're completely right that the TT on Saturday will be more exciting. You're also right that this might make the sport cleaner. However, I wanna see it before I really believe it. Basically, they've been saying this since the Festina scandal and still, we had a positive winner last year.
I was just watching the news, and they had a story about doping in other sports where they don't risk getting caught like in cycling. Did you know that doping is widely used in golf?? Apparantly for fast healing of injuries and beta blockers for a calm put. And symphonic orchestras use the same medicine for calming the nerves and playing well!
At least we've gotten more or less rid of the really obvious doping from the 80s. Do you remember those East German and Chinese swimmers that were supposedly female? |
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AbsolutPurple Posted Thu 26 Jul, 2007 9:18 PM |
what do you mean ? they were supposedly female ?
i did gymnastics and some "communist - democratic countries" used to get the gymnasts pregnant (because of hormone balance changing they were much more powerful 3 weeks pregnant) and then had them have an abortion at 3 months.
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paul_c Posted Thu 26 Jul, 2007 9:23 PM |
Well, true about Landis last year. There just seems to be a completely zero tolerance policy on it by everyone- and not just the governing body now. Rasmussen hasn't done any sort of doping (that we know of)- yet he's kicked out because of suspicion and rumour. That hasn't happened before. Last year, Basso, Ullrich and Landis were all banned for actually testing positive- Rasmussen hasn't tested positive. I think that's why it seems more of a stamp out since the Festina thing in 1998.
Someone mentioned life bans, rather than 2 years competitive bans- which would probably be a real deterrent! But there's always going to be people like Vinokourov who will chance it. It's a shame! |
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Hanne Posted Thu 26 Jul, 2007 9:23 PM |
AbsolutPurple wrote: what do you mean ? they were supposedly female ?
i did gymnastics and some "communist - democratic countries" used to get the gymnasts pregnant (because of hormone balance changing they were much more powerful 3 weeks pregnant) and then had them have an abortion at 3 months.
I've heard about female athletes doing that today as well :oS
I meant that these women looked like men. They had extremely broad shoulders and almost grew beards. Didn't look very female. |
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AbsolutPurple Posted Thu 26 Jul, 2007 9:26 PM |
Hanne wrote: AbsolutPurple wrote: what do you mean ? they were supposedly female ?
i did gymnastics and some "communist - democratic countries" used to get the gymnasts pregnant (because of hormone balance changing they were much more powerful 3 weeks pregnant) and then had them have an abortion at 3 months.
I've heard about female athletes doing that today as well :oS
I meant that these women looked like men. They had extremely broad shoulders and almost grew beards. Didn't look very female.
Right i get yr point but they were women - not transexuals !
I still remember watching swimmers at Olympic games and the DDR girls had these huge shoulders. It was so weird.
I wonder what has happened to them. |
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Hanne Posted Thu 26 Jul, 2007 9:28 PM |
paul_c wrote: Well, true about Landis last year. There just seems to be a completely zero tolerance policy on it by everyone- and not just the governing body now. Rasmussen hasn't done any sort of doping (that we know of)- yet he's kicked out because of suspicion and rumour. That hasn't happened before. Last year, Basso, Ullrich and Landis were all banned for actually testing positive- Rasmussen hasn't tested positive. I think that's why it seems more of a stamp out since the Festina thing in 1998.
Someone mentioned life bans, rather than 2 years competitive bans- which would probably be a real deterrent! But there's always going to be people like Vinokourov who will chance it. It's a shame!
Did you hear his latest excuse? He tested positive cos he had a lot of blood in his thighs! Yes, he actually said that. Obviously, if you have a lot of blood in your thighs it will look like another man's blood. Hmm.
The thing about Rasmussen is that he wasn't kicked out by the Tour management. They wanted him out but they couldn't do anything cos he hadn't tested positive. It was Rabobank's management that fired him for lying, even if he's vehemently denying being in Italy at that point, and says that this journalist is lying. Anyhow, if the Tour is going to be cleaner, then maybe all riders need to fulfill some much more strickt standards even before entering the tour. This must include suspicious behaviour. |
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AbsolutPurple Posted Thu 26 Jul, 2007 9:30 PM |
Hanne wrote: [
Did you hear his latest excuse? He tested positive cos he had a lot of blood in his thighs! Yes, he actually said that. Obviously, if you have a lot of blood in your thighs it will look like another man's blood. Hmm.
you didn't know this ? what an eejit ! the guy is a total tosser. |
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paul_c Posted Thu 26 Jul, 2007 9:32 PM |
I know it was Rabobank- that's what i'm saying. It's not just the governing bodies taking action against cheats- teams are prepared to do it upon suspicion now, whereas this hasn't happened before. It's always been official action by the governing body upon the results of a positive tests.
Some comedian said last year "So Floyd Landis has been stripped of his tour title cos he has more testosterone than other men. More testosterone? Of course he has more testosterone than other men- HE'S AN AMERICAN!!!" Lol, i thought that was funny |
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Hanne Posted Thu 26 Jul, 2007 9:38 PM |
LOL! Yes, good argument. A very manly American, even more manly than the most manly American haha
Sorry I got the thing about teams taking responsibility wrong. I agree that they should. Apparantly, CSC has a very strict policy on this and are trying to keep the team clean. The trustworthiness of Bjarne Riis' team can be discussed since he admitted to taking doping himself, but nobody's been caught since Basso, so maybe that's a good sign.
Btw, about two years ago, there was this satire program on Danish tv. They had this returning comedy about a cycling team that would do everything to get a wild card for the Tour. They were called Team Easy On, sponsored by a condom manufacturer lol. Anyhow, they were incredibly popular and then about a week after Riis' admissions, they also had a press conference. Here they admitted to having taken everything from cocain to sniffing glue. They were actually very funny :o) Oh, one of those guys from this show is the lead singer of the band with that Mexico song. Odd coincidence. |
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LME2005 Posted Thu 26 Jul, 2007 9:38 PM |
| While Rasmussen may not have kicked out by the tour, its pretty much figured that he lied about his whereabouts so he could dope. everyone knows that except for the short-term recovery aids, doping is really only effective if it's done in the weeks leadingup to the tour...the benefit of EPO happens after you take it, and supposedly after a few days it's not detectable, so people do secret training, etc. that's why the UCI instituted the out-of-comp testing, but people like vino and ras try to claim they didn't know they were needed, while they're in italy training alone (or with Dr Ferrari) deliberately NOT wearing their team kit. unless rasmussen can porve he really was in mexico he's lying and was trying to hide from the testers. i realize he hasn't failed a test, but he has avoided taking one, or is it 4? |
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AbsolutPurple Posted Thu 26 Jul, 2007 9:38 PM |
paul_c wrote: I know it was Rabobank- that's what i'm saying. It's not just the governing bodies taking action against cheats- teams are prepared to do it upon suspicion now, whereas this hasn't happened before. It's always been official action by the governing body upon the results of a positive tests.
Some comedian said last year "So Floyd Landis has been stripped of his tour title cos he has more testosterone than other men. More testosterone? Of course he has more testosterone than other men- HE'S AN AMERICAN!!!" Lol, i thought that was funny
funny indeed ! gotta love those yanks !!! |
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Hanne Posted Thu 26 Jul, 2007 9:40 PM |
LME2005 wrote: While Rasmussen may not have kicked out by the tour, its pretty much figured that he lied about his whereabouts so he could dope. everyone knows that except for the short-term recovery aids, doping is really only effective if it's done in the weeks leadingup to the tour...the benefit of EPO happens after you take it, and supposedly after a few days it's not detectable, so people do secret training, etc. that's why the UCI instituted the out-of-comp testing, but people like vino and ras try to claim they didn't know they were needed, while they're in italy training alone (or with Dr Ferrari) deliberately NOT wearing their team kit. unless rasmussen can porve he really was in mexico he's lying and was trying to hide from the testers. i realize he hasn't failed a test, but he has avoided taking one, or is it 4?
Two, I think, he got a warning from two unions per time.
Thanks for the explanation of why they take doping during training. I couldn't see the logic of doing this. Now it makes more sense... |
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AbsolutPurple Posted Thu 26 Jul, 2007 9:43 PM |
don't wanna sound like a "know it all" again but these guys and the docs with them are experimenting drugs that doping tests cannot detect YET.
So granted, there is EPO but there do plenty of other things around. |
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Hanne Posted Thu 26 Jul, 2007 9:50 PM |
AbsolutPurple wrote: don't wanna sound like a "know it all" again but these guys and the docs with them are experimenting drugs that doping tests cannot detect YET.
So granted, there is EPO but there do plenty of other things around.
I know, it's like a big monster showing it's ugly head. Yuck. |
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AbsolutPurple Posted Thu 26 Jul, 2007 9:54 PM |
Hanne wrote: AbsolutPurple wrote: don't wanna sound like a "know it all" again but these guys and the docs with them are experimenting drugs that doping tests cannot detect YET.
So granted, there is EPO but there do plenty of other things around.
I know, it's like a big monster showing it's ugly head. Yuck.
I mean these "docs" are very bright and smart and know exactly what tests can do - they're like 3 steps ahead of tests when it comes to developping new drugs.
I blame the whole system for this : cyclists, entourage, sponsors, TV and TV rights, supporters...
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