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Scottish Dubliner Posted Tue 27 Jan, 2009 11:52 PM |
Hi Juuli,
I think a lot of the time when people are living in a state of fear. they prefer to ignore it and possibly it's a psychological thing where the "brain" protects the "mind" from such attrocities. I have read similar accounts from Nazi Germany. I think it's the brain protecting the person... "If you ignore it enough - It isn't actually happening" type of thing... possibly
Dubz
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bogusblue Posted Wed 28 Jan, 2009 2:33 AM |
I Came in Through the Bathroom Window wrote: Nell wrote:
Didn't the pope just yesterday or so reengage 3 priests that were thrown out of service before- one of them because he had denied the holocaust ever happened?
He still does deny that - but the pope just doesn't care...
Isn't it even illegal to say that?
I can't say I'm surprised by that!
Neither I am.
Very interesting things you said about the interviews you made for your seminar, Ju. |
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weirdmom Posted Wed 28 Jan, 2009 2:40 AM |
Scottish Dubliner wrote:
Hi Juuli,
I think a lot of the time when people are living in a state of fear. they prefer to ignore it and possibly it's a psychological thing where the "brain" protects the "mind" from such attrocities. I have read similar accounts from Nazi Germany. I think it's the brain protecting the person... "If you ignore it enough - It isn't actually happening" type of thing... possibly
Dubz
I agree. I can hardly stand to hear about this stuff at all let alone imagine living next door to it.
I presume any sort of protest or offering of help would lead to you being thrown in the camp. |
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I Came in Through the Bathroom Window Posted Wed 28 Jan, 2009 3:30 AM |
Scottish Dubliner wrote:
Hi Juuli,
I think a lot of the time when people are living in a state of fear. they prefer to ignore it and possibly it's a psychological thing where the "brain" protects the "mind" from such attrocities. I have read similar accounts from Nazi Germany. I think it's the brain protecting the person... "If you ignore it enough - It isn't actually happening" type of thing... possibly
Dubz
Yes, definitely. We're not judging them in a "how come you didn't do anything to stop this" kind of way (by "we" I mean the members of my research group and I). These people reacted the way they could to the terror spread by the genocide. We believe that the atrocities committed inside the camps had effects that included the whole society.
There's this metaphore used by some specialists in genocide studies. They consider the camp as the stock cube and the society as the soup.
After all, the military called it "Process of National Re-organization", so the society itself was its target. They believed that the extermination of politically active people who were fighting for a change was needed to "cure the country". There's a certain type of social bondings that was destroyed with the genocide. Trust, solidarity, caring for eachother, etc. The answers of the people we interviewed are a consecquence of that.
So we're analyzing the speeches of these neighbours trying to see how the genocide affected them and their social relations, and in which ways we could be able to say that the genocide achieved its goals or not. |
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DucatiMonster Posted Wed 28 Jan, 2009 11:12 AM |
Rubbish !! These people have to speak out. A speech from Anti-Nazi Mozement (Berlin 1939)
First they came for the Jews,
But I did not speak out,
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the Communists,
And I did not speak out,
Because I was not a Communist.
Then they came for the trade-unionists,
And I did not speak out,
Because I was not a trade-unionist.
Then they came for the Catholics,
And I did not speak out,
Because I was not a Catholic.
Then they came for me,
And there was no one left to speak out for me.
Pastor Niemller |
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megg_inc Posted Wed 28 Jan, 2009 11:40 AM |
DucatiMonster wrote: A speech from Anti-Nazi Mozement (Berlin 1939)
For the record: the speech was given by Niemöller in Frankfurt in 1946. |
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DucatiMonster Posted Wed 28 Jan, 2009 11:44 AM |
megg_inc wrote: DucatiMonster wrote: A speech from Anti-Nazi Mozement (Berlin 1939)
For the record: the speech was given by Niemöller in Frankfurt in 1946.
Not according to this although I reckon he may have travelled and gave the same speech more than once ?
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megg_inc Posted Wed 28 Jan, 2009 11:54 AM |
DucatiMonster wrote: megg_inc wrote: DucatiMonster wrote: A speech from Anti-Nazi Mozement (Berlin 1939)
For the record: the speech was given by Niemöller in Frankfurt in 1946.
Not according to this although I reckon he may have travelled and gave the same speech more than once ?
The thing is he was interned in Sachsenhausen and Dachau concentration camps from 1938 to 1945. I'm just saying. |
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DucatiMonster Posted Wed 28 Jan, 2009 11:58 AM |
megg_inc wrote: DucatiMonster wrote: megg_inc wrote: DucatiMonster wrote: A speech from Anti-Nazi Mozement (Berlin 1939)
For the record: the speech was given by Niemöller in Frankfurt in 1946.
Not according to this although I reckon he may have travelled and gave the same speech more than once ?
The thing is he was interned in Sachsenhausen and Dachau concentration camps from 1938 to 1945. I'm just saying.
Ok, I did suspect that '39 was a bit early to be giving that speech. |
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I Came in Through the Bathroom Window Posted Wed 28 Jan, 2009 2:07 PM |
DucatiMonster wrote: Rubbish !! These people have to speak out.
It's a tough issue. It's an extreeme situation they were exposed to. The target of the victims was active militants: students, syndicalists, members of guerrilla forces in its majority, their families, friends, witnesses, and even random people. That causes a paralizing fear. And in some cases, people unconsciously choose not to know, they try to believe that it was a thing that didn't affect them because they were good citizens who didn't have anything to do with politics. That's the majority of the argentinian people.
Other people are just fuckers (in my humble and not neutral at all opinion). The mothers of the desaparecidos (missing people) started doing rounds (protest was forbidden, and you could not hang in groups of more than 3 people) in front of the government house in 1977 asking for the whereabouts of their sons and doughters (the coup was 1976-1983). People would walk by them and tell them "you're making our country look bad!" or "hey, they must have done something". As if "having done something" was a good enough reason to "disappear a person", put them in a concentration camp, torture them, execute them and get rid of the bodies.
Or when the UN delegates came to investigate because of the declarations of persecuted people that had gone into exile, the military government started a campaign that said "We Argentinians are Right/Straight and Human" (Human Rights in Spanish is Derechos Humanos, "derecho" also means straight). And people would wear badges, taxis had posters with that slogan...
I don't know. I think the whole society is to blame at some point, but they were also victims... It's a fine line. |
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Scottish Dubliner Posted Wed 28 Jan, 2009 2:30 PM |
DucatiMonster wrote: Rubbish !! These people have to speak out. A speech from Anti-Nazi Mozement (Berlin 1939)
First they came for the Jews,
But I did not speak out,
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the Communists,
And I did not speak out,
Because I was not a Communist.
Then they came for the trade-unionists,
And I did not speak out,
Because I was not a trade-unionist.
Then they came for the Catholics,
And I did not speak out,
Because I was not a Catholic.
Then they came for me,
And there was no one left to speak out for me.
Pastor Niemller
Bollocks, you have no fucking idea what you are talking about. You have absolutely no fucking idea how you would act until you are placed in such a situation.
Personally I think as a typical student you like to think of yourself as a bit of a rebel, probably got into Law to do things like Human Rights. When the sad fact is you will probably end up making a fortune through "Daddy's" firm in Conveyancing and Litigation.
Dubz
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Scottish Dubliner Posted Fri 16 Oct, 2009 1:56 PM |
They came for the palmists, but I wasn’t a palmist so I did nothing
They came for the bungee jumpers, but I wasn’t a bungee jumper so I did nothing
They came for the players’ agents, but I wasn’t a players’ agent so I did nothing
They came for the Charles Manson fans, but I wasn’t a Charles Manson fan so I did nothing
They came for the reflexologists, but I wasn’t a reflexologist so I did nothing
They came for the camp TV chefs, but I wasn’t a camp TV chef so I did nothing
They came for the RoMos, I laughed
They came for the martial arts enthusiasts, but I wasn’t a martial arts enthusiast so I did nothing
They came for Eamonn Holmes and I think I’m right in saying I applauded
They came for the fire-eaters, but I wasn’t a fire-eater so I did nothing
They came for Dani Behr, I said she’s over there, behind the wardrobe
Dubz
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