Since Emeline Pankhurst set an unprecidented example back in 191whatever, I think womens lib has been doing ok the world over.
I think a black American President would have much more cultural significance than a women. Especially since the UK has been there and done that.
Plus I think Obama is the stronger candidate.
"I think a black American President would have much more cultural significance than a women. Especially since the UK has been there and done that."
Dude, head back down to the shallow end.
You could at least have been constructive, instead of just chosing to insulte me.
it's interesting that you're feeling all hurt and picked on when you make these amazingly ill-informed generalizations about stuff you have no idea about. you should be apologizing to the large block of female boardies and not looking for me to hold your hand and show you how to conduct yourself in a constructive fashion.
"race relations in the states are so much more important than womens lib."
Says who? Both are important.
I didn't mean it like that Nikki, I didn't mean it wasn't important. I also wasn't being intentionally sexist - the opposite if anything, in that I don't see there being much if anything of a gender divide anymore.
Anyway, perhaps I didn't make myself clear, but I'm not going to argue futher on this one. Moving on.
I understand. I didn't mean to attack you or anything. I just think both are important and believe me, a LOT of women in the US still feel there IS a huge gender divide. Especially when it comes to wages. It's a fact men get paid more for doing the same job. It happened to me working in a nearly all-male field of automotive journalism. I was told to my face it's a "boys club." Yeah, I don't want to start a huge thing. Moving on! :)
"I also wasn't being intentionally sexist - the opposite if anything, in that I don't see there being much if anything of a gender divide anymore."
Dude just keep on digging.
Advice: don't start in on things you can't defend when questioned.
At no point have you actually drawn up a counter argument, highlighting what point you actually disagreed with and why. You just had a go at me, belittling my character in both posts, over a fairly flippant, off hand comment stating basically that it's my opinion that in the current social climate, a black US president would have more significance to me that a female one. Thats it as far as I can see. But do go on.
As Nikki experienced, I think every woman has experienced sexism, starting from work (look at the proportion of male/female admin staff, cleaners, forced part time work meaning underpaid), wages, unemployment not even starting to mention violence...our western modern society is NOTHING in proportion to the whole world...and even in the western world sexism is an everywhere reality.
As Nikki experienced, I think every woman has experienced sexism, starting from work (look at the proportion of male/female admin staff, cleaners, forced part time work meaning underpaid), wages, unemployment not even starting to mention violence...our western modern society is NOTHING in proportion to the whole world...and even in the western world sexism is an everywhere reality.
it's interesting that you're feeling all hurt and picked on when you make these amazingly ill-informed generalizations about stuff you have no idea about. you should be apologizing to the large block of female boardies and not looking for me to hold your hand and show you how to conduct yourself in a constructive fashion.
At no point did I say that a female president wasn't important, worthwhile, or necessary. If you read my post it's implicit that I think the opposite. Where I was going was that I think a black president would have more significance, being as America is a country swamped with racial inequiality, and struggling to come to terms with the divides between. Not so much so with the geneder divide. But kudos for misinterpreting the point so well.
I'm sure all the women on the board are delighted that you, their knight in shining armour has stood up to defend their hard faught rights on their behalf.
I'm already embrassed so much has been made of such a non issue by the way.
"I also wasn't being intentionally sexist - the opposite if anything, in that I don't see there being much if anything of a gender divide anymore."
Dude just keep on digging.
Advice: don't start in on things you can't defend when questioned.
At no point have you actually drawn up a counter argument, highlighting what point you actually disagreed with and why. You just had a go at me, belittling my character in both posts, over a fairly flippant, off hand comment stating basically that it's my opinion that in the current social climate, a black US president would have more significance to me that a female one. Thats it as far as I can see. But do go on.
how can i have a logical argument/discussion with someone that states that his opinions are made up of "fairly flippant, off hand" comments?
your sexism (or ignorance) is so ingrained you can't even see how insluting your "offhand" remarks, sorry opinions, can be to someone of the opposite sex.
OK, so my 2 cents now. First of all, I don't feel insulted. I kinda agree with Moray. Maybe he didn't choose the best words, but I can see his point.
Obviously, there is still a gender divide. Like Nikki said, in Western countries it's mostly about job issues- when it comes to wage, promotion etc. We all know that. If Hillary becomes the President, it would make me very proud as a woman. But I'm not quite sure how that could really make a difference for a women in general? Like, you know, there were already female Prime Ministers, Presidents across the world. Which is great, I just don't feel that when it happens in USA- BUM!- here's the revolution!
I think that Obama, on the other hand, could make that difference, not only for Afroamericans, but for people of all races, all minorities. I personally think that would be more important symbol, if he wins. Plus, I think he's a better candidate.
Haz, as a female boardie I want to thank you for your support, but you know, we can speak for ourselves ;P
I really think that MoraySwan was missunderstood, as he never said that women don't deserve to win elections or were not prepared to rule US Government. I think that what he tried to explain was that, according to his opinion, Obama's victory would have a bigger impact in black population than what a Clinton's victory would have in female population, but just because women had got more rights and consideration than black people in this unfair (for both) society.
Am I right MoraySwan ???
At no point have you actually drawn up a counter argument, highlighting what point you actually disagreed with and why. ... over a fairly flippant, off hand comment stating basically that it's my opinion that in the current social climate, a black US president would have more significance to me that a female one. Thats it as far as I can see. But do go on.
Sorry Morray but this is not about your opinion at all, it's about how you've put it accross, sustaining it on nothing or sexist generalistation.
There are countless statistics, experiences, witnesses on this board only, proofs, telling many exemple of vivid sexism in the world including the western world (UK, US, Mainland Europe...)
Saying that "a black US president would have more significance to me that a female one" is in itself not only sexist, it's also racist. You don't mean it of course, but having this approach means that you are consciously dividing the gender, the race, and looking at it from a segregated point of view instead of looking at those candidates from a person's, skills' point of view. Also putting "black" or "female" on a ladder/hierarchy is also going in the same way. That's what is shocking.
your sexism (or ignorance) is so ingrained you can't even see how insluting your "offhand" remarks, sorry opinions, can be to someone of the opposite sex.
OK, so my 2 cents now. First of all, I don't feel insulted. I kinda agree with Moray. Maybe he didn't choose the best words, but I can see his point.
Obviously, there is still a gender divide. Like Nikki said, in Western countries it's mostly about job issues- when it comes to wage, promotion etc. We all know that. If Hillary becomes the President, it would make me very proud as a woman. But I'm not quite sure how that could really make a difference for a women in general? Like, you know, there were already female Prime Ministers, Presidents across the world. Which is great, I just don't feel that when it happens in USA- BUM!- here's the revolution!
I think that Obama, on the other hand, could make that difference, not only for Afroamericans, but for people of all races. I personally think that would be more important symbol, if he wins. Plus, I think he's a better candidate.
Haz, as a female boardie I want to thank you for your support, but you know, we can speak for ourselves ;P
The fact that the United States of America, which is supposedly the beacon of democracy to the rest of the world, has never in its history had a female president is, in my opinion, a big deal. But that's neither here nor there. Currently we have the opportunity to elect the BEST person for the job, the most EXPERIENCED person for the job who just happens to be a woman. My issue is with the gender versus ethnic chin stroking. Clinton is the best PERSON for this position (again in my opinion) and given the sexism that still exists in this country a byproduct of electing the best person would also show the rest of the world that the US has pulled itself into the 21st century and by extension allow bridges to be rebuilt post 9-11.
Oh I see so since I don't have a vagina I can't have an opinion on this subject. noted.
your sexism (or ignorance) is so ingrained you can't even see how insluting your "offhand" remarks, sorry opinions, can be to someone of the opposite sex.
