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Hanne Posted Wed 30 Jul, 2008 11:55 AM |
Now, Deebee, this could be an interesting discussion. Sorry to hear that your dad had to make such a tough decision.
In my opinion, decisions like these are the hardest to make; do you wanna live with a disability? Can the familiy accept this disability? Do you choose not to get the surgery? Are you ready for your life to end soon? Is your family ready to let you go?
I'm sure you've already asked yourself all of this.
When I learned first aid, they always said life over mobility; if there is a car accident, you have to stabilise the person, especially the neck. However, if the car is burning or something, you need to move the person. I see the logic of it, but it still made me think; would I rather be paralysed, or die in the accident? I'd probably choose the first option, but it's a difficult one.
I just hope that everything will turn out ok for you, your dad and your familiy. |
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deebee Posted Wed 30 Jul, 2008 12:00 PM |
| He's already given up the booze and cigs but he feels the Drs have messed around with his body enough. He's a stubborn old mule so getting him to give the op a go is hard work. He'll have all his wits about him afterwards but won't be able to communicate vocally and he'll have to inject his food. I agree that when you lose your mind the quality of your life maybe matters less but he'll know EXACTLY what's going on and will probably be a nightmare to live with. He's only just turned 60 so he's not old as such. |
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Hanne Posted Wed 30 Jul, 2008 12:00 PM |
Scottish Dubliner wrote:
That's a tough one, Die or live a life or lesser quality.
I often thought about alzhiemers, I used to think I'd like to die with dignity before I went senile but I was thinking recently that when you do go senile you probably don't know it so maybe it's not so bad.
My grandfather died of cancer and was told if he gave up smoking and drinking there was a chance he could live another 6 months to a year, he didn't and lived 6 months anyway, the last 3 of which were really tough. there's a line in the Pogues song Sally MacLennane that always reminds me of him...
"Some people they are scared to croak but Jimmy Drank until he choked, and took the road for Heaven in the morning"
btw he was called James... but never Jimmy
Dubz
My grandmother died of alzheimers. There was a period where she knew that something was off, and it was very frustrating for her and for us. The last couple of years though, she had no idea about anything really. It wasn't even possible to get eye contact with her. She wasn't dead, but she definitely wasn't there anymore either. That last part is definitely tougher for the family than the person suffering from alzheimers. |
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Hanne Posted Wed 30 Jul, 2008 12:02 PM |
deebee wrote: He's already given up the booze and cigs but he feels the Drs have messed around with his body enough. He's a stubborn old mule so getting him to give the op a go is hard work. He'll have all his wits about him afterwards but won't be able to communicate vocally and he'll have to inject his food. I agree that when you lose your mind the quality of your life maybe matters less but he'll know EXACTLY what's going on and will probably be a nightmare to live with. He's only just turned 60 so he's not old as such.
So he doesn't really want the surgery, then? Does he do it for the sake of his family?
I really, really hope he'll be able to live with his disabilities. |
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deebee Posted Wed 30 Jul, 2008 12:04 PM |
I think it's probably more difficult for the person to suffer a physical disability rather than a mental one but everyone wants to grow old gracefully and he knows that's not going to happen.
My grandmother died years ago of Motor neurones disease and she wasn't with us at all at the end. That's why I feel this is so tough for him. |
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deebee Posted Wed 30 Jul, 2008 12:07 PM |
Hanne wrote: deebee wrote: He's already given up the booze and cigs but he feels the Drs have messed around with his body enough. He's a stubborn old mule so getting him to give the op a go is hard work. He'll have all his wits about him afterwards but won't be able to communicate vocally and he'll have to inject his food. I agree that when you lose your mind the quality of your life maybe matters less but he'll know EXACTLY what's going on and will probably be a nightmare to live with. He's only just turned 60 so he's not old as such.
So he doesn't really want the surgery, then? Does he do it for the sake of his family?
I really, really hope he'll be able to live with his disabilities.
He initially refused but his wife has begged him to give the surgery a try. I get the feeling he's doing it more for her but doesn't want it done himself. He's already had an op last month but the results were not great afterwards so this time it'll be more invasive with bigger consequences.
He's got his pre-op visit tomorrow and could possibly change his mind again.
If it were me, I'd have the operation done and would live with the physical disabilities afterwards. What about you? |
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Gladly (the cross-eyed bear) Posted Wed 30 Jul, 2008 12:19 PM |
| Personally i wouldn't go for it. To be honest if his wife knows he is only dong it for her, thats wrong too. You can only live your own life. You shouldn't be made to live it for someone else's benefit. |
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deebee Posted Wed 30 Jul, 2008 12:23 PM |
| I think she's feeling a bit guilty about "pushing" him towards it but she can't be blamed for wanting him around a bit longer. I just hope he doesn't give up during the recovery period - that's when he'll need to be doing it for the right reasons. |
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spid Posted Wed 30 Jul, 2008 12:26 PM |
i've thought about this type of situation a lot. I alays thought i would rather die than be 1/2 a person and then I saw a documentary on a man who had had a terrible accident and was almost completely paralysed - he could wink one eye; that was all. He managed to communicate via his winking eye, he had children and grandchildren and they all loved him and he them - he 'said' that he could never have given up the precious years he had shared with his off-spring. And it totally changed my mind. Having kids certainly made it easier to change too. I want to see them grow and have their own children and I want to share in as many family moments as i can. Memories are all we have left in the end - i want as many as possible.
Your Dad may feel he has enough memories - but if it was me I would feel upset that he wasn't willing to try everything and wanted to leave us - at the same time I realise that he may just have had enough. However, he can learn to sign or write stuff down and tube feeding isn't as horrendous as it seems, it tends to happen at night. The rest of his life will have a quality, his disabilities actually in the grand scheme of things quite minor. He will at least still be able to walk, hold loved ones, kiss, see, hear etc.
It's a toughie this one. In answer top the original question - me - i'd have the op and as many as were needed to keep me on this earth with my family. |
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Hanne Posted Wed 30 Jul, 2008 12:29 PM |
deebee wrote:
He initially refused but his wife has begged him to give the surgery a try. I get the feeling he's doing it more for her but doesn't want it done himself. He's already had an op last month but the results were not great afterwards so this time it'll be more invasive with bigger consequences.
He's got his pre-op visit tomorrow and could possibly change his mind again.
If it were me, I'd have the operation done and would live with the physical disabilities afterwards. What about you?
Personally, I'd go for the operation. Then again, I'm 28 and not ready to leave this life yet. I can't say what I'd do if I were 60. I'm trying to imagine my dad in this situation - he turned 60 recently. I'm fairly certain that he'd go for the operation, but I don't know if he'd be the same person afterwards.
Doing it for the sake of your family is not necessarily the best option. Does his wife want to live with him, if he can't really live with himself? What if he gets a severe depression?
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deebee Posted Wed 30 Jul, 2008 12:31 PM |
| Thanks Spid. Obviously my dad's case isn't as extreme as the one you just mentioned. He'll be mobile and fully comp and I'm sure he'll find his way of communicating. I too would want to be around for my kids and maybe grandchildren. |
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Typing to Reach You Posted Wed 30 Jul, 2008 12:35 PM |
deebee wrote: Oh come on......
Here's a discussion for you. My dad is supposed to have an operation next Tuesday (2nd one since June) It'll save his life but will probably leave him unable to talk or eat unaided. Basically his quality of life won't be great OR..... he does nothing and lets his cancer grow. Opinions are divided in the family on this one.
What would you do?
I'm sorry to hear that your dad and family are in this kind of situation. Its difficult. I understand why people say that a life of dependancy or disability isn't worth living. But then there are people who are born without being able to talk or feed themselves - people who we may consider not to have a good quality life. And we don't ever say that their lives are therefore not worth living - that they are somehow not worth anything. The thing is, although your dad wont be able to do many of the things he can now, I don't think that necessarily means he will never be happy again or get any enjoyment out of life. I suppose it all depends on the individual's perspective on life and their positivity.
One thing I noticed though is that you used the word 'probably' - so, there's a chance things could turn out better? |
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deebee Posted Wed 30 Jul, 2008 12:35 PM |
Hanne wrote: deebee wrote:
He initially refused but his wife has begged him to give the surgery a try. I get the feeling he's doing it more for her but doesn't want it done himself. He's already had an op last month but the results were not great afterwards so this time it'll be more invasive with bigger consequences.
He's got his pre-op visit tomorrow and could possibly change his mind again.
If it were me, I'd have the operation done and would live with the physical disabilities afterwards. What about you?
Personally, I'd go for the operation. Then again, I'm 28 and not ready to leave this life yet. I can't say what I'd do if I were 60. I'm trying to imagine my dad in this situation - he turned 60 recently. I'm fairly certain that he'd go for the operation, but I don't know if he'd be the same person afterwards.
Doing it for the sake of your family is not necessarily the best option. Does his wife want to live with him, if he can't really live with himself? What if he gets a severe depression?
Hanne, he got quite depressed after the last operation which wasn't half as serious as the one he's going to have. This worries me a lot and I think he'll need really boosting to get him off the roller coaster. |
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deebee Posted Wed 30 Jul, 2008 12:41 PM |
Typing to Reach You wrote: deebee wrote: Oh come on......
Here's a discussion for you. My dad is supposed to have an operation next Tuesday (2nd one since June) It'll save his life but will probably leave him unable to talk or eat unaided. Basically his quality of life won't be great OR..... he does nothing and lets his cancer grow. Opinions are divided in the family on this one.
What would you do?
I'm sorry to hear that your dad and family are in this kind of situation. Its difficult. I understand why people say that a life of dependancy or disability isn't worth living. But then there are people who are born without being able to talk or feed themselves - people who we may consider not to have a good quality life. And we don't ever say that their lives are therefore not worth living - that they are somehow not worth anything. The thing is, although your dad wont be able to do many of the things he can now, I don't think that necessarily means he will never be happy again or get any enjoyment out of life. I suppose it all depends on the individual's perspective on life and their positivity.
One thing I noticed though is that you used the word 'probably' - so, there's a chance things could turn out better?
I think you hit the nail on the head when you said about the person's attitude and positivity. He is at the moment only seeing the dark side of things which is not good. He's had part of his vocal chords removed already and they are about to remove what's left so I suppose there is no chance of him being able to talk again. Maybe I'm being a bit too optimistic using the word "probably". |
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Hanne Posted Wed 30 Jul, 2008 12:44 PM |
deebee wrote:
Hanne, he got quite depressed after the last operation which wasn't half as serious as the one he's going to have. This worries me a lot and I think he'll need really boosting to get him off the roller coaster.
I can easily imagine that my dad would be exactly the same. I usually find that if someone around me is going through something extremely difficult, it helps if I don't treat them any differently than I would have. I know that I'd hate it if I felt that someone was pitying me or didn't really accept me the way I was.
Has he talked to a doctor about phsycological treatment after the operation? |
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