Posts: 1531 |
lilly Posted Fri 14 Nov, 2008 9:07 PM |
Turtleneck wrote: Ale, if you want to be proper, adding "at" at the end is incorrect, because you are not supposed to end a sentence with a preposition.
The reason for this rule is that English is based on Latin, and I think you can't end a sentence that way in Latin. (If I remember my linguistics studies correctly.)
You will be understood, of course. But you shouldn't use it in formal writing.
It can lead to awkward sentences sometimes because you might have to switch things around. There's an urban legend about Winston Churchill saying, "That is the sort of language up with which I will not put." Don't have time to look up the exact quote, but it's very close to that.
Yepp, I think that's the exact quote. Hm, I remember reading that he said it to mock people who tossed their words around until their sentences didn't end on prepositions anymore ;)
And the problem with Latin is: in Latin you have cases/declinations, so - *err* - a preposition changes the noun or phrase that's connected to it (and therefore it can't be used after the phrase/noun). I think some English grammar-Pope decided a few hundred years ago that Latin-inspired English is beautiful English or something ;)
But - ehm - what about:
- restrictive clauses starting with "that"
- sentences starting with "what"
- infinitive clauses
--> for more see Merriam Webster...? (hope the link works).
I think most problems arise because we non-Native-Speakers often put an "at" or "in" or "from" in a sentence that shouldn't be in the sentence at all. I'm afraid we just loooove using prepositions when we try to speak English ;)
*sighs* my god, I've got my final exams in three months and my professor keeps telling us what kind of stupid mistakes we're still making.
Until last Wednesday night, NO ONE had ever told me you don't pronounce the "-lands" in "Netherlands" like "lands" *lol*. And I think I'll always pronounce "project" and "clothes" in a horribly un-English way ;D
English IS NOT easy.
*takes her book and hopes very much to finally understand the confusing plot of "Brideshead..."* |
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Posts: 7519 |
Nikki Posted Fri 14 Nov, 2008 9:09 PM |
Aletways wrote: Turtleneck wrote: Ale, if you want to be proper, adding "at" at the end is incorrect, because you are not supposed to end a sentence with a preposition.
The reason for this rule is that English is based on Latin, and I think you can't end a sentence that way in Latin. (If I remember my linguistics studies correctly.)
You will be understood, of course. But you shouldn't use it in formal writing.
It can lead to awkward sentences sometimes because you might have to switch things around. There's an urban legend about Winston Churchill saying, "That is the sort of language up with which I will not put." Don't have time to look up the exact quote, but it's very close to that.
Thank you, Kayte! I was going to ask you what happens with sentences that end with phrasal verbs. So, in a formal writing, mixing things up to avoid ending a sentence with a preposition would be right?
Yeah, don't say it in formal speech or when writing. If I'm at home and in a hurry, I might sometimes say "Where's my coat at??" -- The right way to say and write it is just simply "Where's my coat?"
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Posts: 7404 |
Turtleneck Posted Fri 14 Nov, 2008 9:14 PM |
Aletways wrote:
Thank you, Kayte! I was going to ask you what happens with sentences that end with phrasal verbs. So, in a formal writing, mixing things up to avoid ending a sentence with a preposition would be right?
Yes. It's not the way most people speak, but in formal writing you do not end a sentence with a preposition.
There are some instances when you almost have to end a sentence in a preposition, though. I'm such a nerd, I was thinking about this while picking the kids up from school.
"What are you looking at?"
It would be very awkward to say, "At what are you looking?"
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Posts: 8142 |
minnmess Posted Fri 14 Nov, 2008 9:27 PM |
OH! I know whatelse should be on the list:
Detroit |
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Posts: 7404 |
Turtleneck Posted Fri 14 Nov, 2008 9:42 PM |
lilly wrote:
But - ehm - what about:
- restrictive clauses starting with "that"
- sentences starting with "what"
- infinitive clauses
Until last Wednesday night, NO ONE had ever told me you don't pronounce the "-lands" in "Netherlands" like "lands" *lol*. And I think I'll always pronounce "project" and "clothes" in a horribly un-English way ;D
English IS NOT easy.
I'm too tired/old to think about all that stuff. I'm done with school, maZn.
So, you don't say lands? What do you say? Netherlans? I always found it weird that Newfoundland is pronounced NEWfinland.
How do you say project in an un-English-like way?
To say clothes, you almost skip the th and say "close" (like close the door, not come close.) |
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Posts: 8142 |
minnmess Posted Fri 14 Nov, 2008 9:50 PM |
Turtleneck wrote: lilly wrote:
But - ehm - what about:
- restrictive clauses starting with "that"
- sentences starting with "what"
- infinitive clauses
Until last Wednesday night, NO ONE had ever told me you don't pronounce the "-lands" in "Netherlands" like "lands" *lol*. And I think I'll always pronounce "project" and "clothes" in a horribly un-English way ;D
English IS NOT easy.
I'm too tired/old to think about all that stuff. I'm done with school, maZn.
So, you don't say lands? What do you say? Netherlans? I always found it weird that Newfoundland is pronounced NEWfinland.
How do you say project in an un-English-like way?
To say clothes, you almost skip the th and say "close" (like close the door, not come close.)
Ya, don't say New-found-land to a newfoundlander. new-fin-lind. Although i tend to say "newfinland"
Like, Netherlinds.
Should my video also include the "Provinces of Canada" song? It's a real winner! |
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Posts: 3258 |
mili Posted Fri 14 Nov, 2008 10:05 PM |
Darran wrote: Also say what I always get asked to say..
How Now Brown Cow
and also say Whilst.
Ooh, I can just hear someone I know (originally) from Belfast saying this! |
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Posts: 10115 |
ricv64 Posted Fri 14 Nov, 2008 10:50 PM |
Nikki wrote: I'm excited to hear Kristy's pronunciation video. It would be really hilarious if you drank milk from a bag while doing it, lol.
I say the Os in "roof" like the Os in "food"...but my dad says roof like "ruff"...sorta like the sound a dog makes, lol.
Michiganders tend to have long, drawn out vowels. Like paaaassword. My friend once told me I say it funny, lol.
Kristy, can you also say "hot" when you make this video?
I say the O in "hot" like the first A in "Avocado".
And you guys say kaaaaaaaaaaaaahwfeeeeeeee for coffee |
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Posts: 7519 |
Nikki Posted Sat 15 Nov, 2008 3:36 AM |
ricv64 wrote: Nikki wrote: I'm excited to hear Kristy's pronunciation video. It would be really hilarious if you drank milk from a bag while doing it, lol.
I say the Os in "roof" like the Os in "food"...but my dad says roof like "ruff"...sorta like the sound a dog makes, lol.
Michiganders tend to have long, drawn out vowels. Like paaaassword. My friend once told me I say it funny, lol.
Kristy, can you also say "hot" when you make this video?
I say the O in "hot" like the first A in "Avocado".
And you guys say kaaaaaaaaaaaaahwfeeeeeeee for coffee
Oh, yes. Kaafee. :)
BLT, you should add that to the list. |
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Posts: 8142 |
minnmess Posted Sat 15 Nov, 2008 7:09 PM |
Just got around to watching that video. Haha, he did totally bring up the Tim Allen roof thing!
I dont understand what you people are hearing because he says "about" "out" and "house" normally and not like aboot, oot or...however we supposedly say house oddly. ITS NORMAL.
k, making my video this afternoon. |
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Posts: 2850 |
Peewee Posted Sun 16 Nov, 2008 5:53 PM |
You might shoot me but.....I NEVER know the difference between an American and a Canadian! Accents just sound the same to me....my bad! lol
I get such grief about it.
I know Americans can sound more "twangy" but eh? It's too much for my little head to compute! lol |
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Posts: 7519 |
Nikki Posted Wed 26 Nov, 2008 2:25 AM |
This WAS our hockey thread, so I'm just bumping it because I feel we should have a hockey thread on page 1 at all times. :D
I just went to my brother's Myspace and read a blog he wrote the day the Wings won the cup. We are so much a like, LOL! >.<
"Sidney Crosby is a diving whiner who can't grow a beard, and probably wears make-up to the games for the corrupt NHL media. I hate the "youthful" Penguins and everything their team represents. The Red Wings are the best team in sports history and I'm so glad we will be waving the cup in front of the Penguins fans and Crosby tonight. I hope he cries." |
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Posts: 2092 |
hennypenny Posted Wed 26 Nov, 2008 2:29 AM |
Nikki wrote: This WAS our hockey thread, so I'm just bumping it because I feel we should have a hockey thread on page 1 at all times. :D
I just went to my brother's Myspace and read a blog he wrote the day the Wings won the cup. We are so much a like, LOL! >.<
"Sidney Crosby is a diving whiner who can't grow a beard, and probably wears make-up to the games for the corrupt NHL media. I hate the "youthful" Penguins and everything their team represents. The Red Wings are the best team in sports history and I'm so glad we will be waving the cup in front of the Penguins fans and Crosby tonight. I hope he cries." |
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Posts: 8142 |
minnmess Posted Wed 26 Nov, 2008 2:38 AM |
Nikki wrote: This WAS our hockey thread, so I'm just bumping it because I feel we should have a hockey thread on page 1 at all times. :D
I just went to my brother's Myspace and read a blog he wrote the day the Wings won the cup. We are so much a like, LOL! >.<
"Sidney Crosby is a diving whiner who can't grow a beard, and probably wears make-up to the games for the corrupt NHL media. I hate the "youthful" Penguins and everything their team represents. The Red Wings are the best team in sports history and I'm so glad we will be waving the cup in front of the Penguins fans and Crosby tonight. I hope he cries."
Those facts should be added to his wiki page:
Sidney Crosby wears make up, cant grow a beard and probably cried after they lost the Cup.
All proven facts.
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