Other than my tax dollars, I did nothing to get any athlete in Canada to where they are, but that doesn't mean that I do not define myself as a Canadian as much as they do. Why can I not proud of an athlete represents my country? Why can they not be proud of representing a nation that helped to form their identity, train and support them to greatness?
We live in a world defined by borders and countries. If it was defined another way, perhaps our alliances would lie differently.
The Vancouver Olympics was a defining moment for my country, not jus in terms of medals and success, but a nation coming together for a common goal and to cheer for the same thing. Being from a place so young and so diverse, that is a huge thing. I can only imagine that GB is beeming with pride right now.
That's kinda my point, there are some beaming with pride in GB and there are others who are using it as an excuse to start with the England/Scotland thing, most Scots I know do not call themselves British and think that the term is actually offensive.
I can understand the pride thing but there are those that will use it a "stick" to beat people ove the head with, England are better than France, Germany are better than Poland, America is better than Canada that's the problem I have with it. It's political and I don't like it.
Dubz [/quote]
Clearly Andy Murray didn't have a problem competing, and winning under the GB name. Maybe let people speak for themselves. He is a growm man. If he didn't want to compete for GB, he didn't have to. Same for any other Scottish athlete (or whatever circumstance).
I don't think anyone is "sticking" it to anyone else, however it is a competition. The point is to win! But I think the Olympics prove year after year that they are bigger than that. Often, the biggest and lasting stories of the Olympics are about overcoming adversity or the person who comes dead last that everyone loves.
People, the media, etc are always going to try to spin things, but why? Enjoy it for what it is.
Other than my tax dollars, I did nothing to get any athlete in Canada to where they are, but that doesn't mean that I do not define myself as a Canadian as much as they do. Why can I not proud of an athlete represents my country? Why can they not be proud of representing a nation that helped to form their identity, train and support them to greatness?
We live in a world defined by borders and countries. If it was defined another way, perhaps our alliances would lie differently.
The Vancouver Olympics was a defining moment for my country, not jus in terms of medals and success, but a nation coming together for a common goal and to cheer for the same thing. Being from a place so young and so diverse, that is a huge thing. I can only imagine that GB is beeming with pride right now.
That's kinda my point, there are some beaming with pride in GB and there are others who are using it as an excuse to start with the England/Scotland thing, most Scots I know do not call themselves British and think that the term is actually offensive.
I can understand the pride thing but there are those that will use it a "stick" to beat people ove the head with, England are better than France, Germany are better than Poland, America is better than Canada that's the problem I have with it. It's political and I don't like it.
Dubz
Clearly Andy Murray didn't have a problem competing, and winning under the GB name. Maybe let people speak for themselves. He is a growm man. If he didn't want to compete for GB, he didn't have to. Same for any other Scottish athlete (or whatever circumstance).
I don't think anyone is "sticking" it to anyone else, however it is a competition. The point is to win! But I think the Olympics prove year after year that they are bigger than that. Often, the biggest and lasting stories of the Olympics are about overcoming adversity or the person who comes dead last that everyone loves.
People, the media, etc are always going to try to spin things, but why? Enjoy it for what it is. [/quote]
So Andy Murray the grown man decides he doesn't want to compete as a Team GB athlete, perhaps you can explain to me what his options are for competing in the Olympics, there is no team Scotland or team Murray. He has to compete for team GB or he doesn't compete...
As a former colony of the empire how would your fellow countrymen feel if your proud Canadian athletes had to compete under a British flag?
He doesn't have to compete! If you have a problem playing the country, don't play! Obviously standing on the top of a podium singing God Save the Queen, he doesn't have an issue. So why do you? The Olympics are about competing for your country, plain and simple. Don't want to compete for your country, don't compete.
Clearly there is a difference between Canada and Scotland so don't try to compare the 2. Over simplification.
For someone who claims to disliking the spreading of hatred, you certainly do fight a lot
I'm not fighting, I'm debating the world would be a shit place if everybody agreed on everything. Just because your good self and Megg have differing opinions on this matter does not mean I think any less of either of you.
Ok so it is generally accepted that to be regarded as the greatest you have to have an Olympic medal, so therefore you have to decide what you want more to compete in the Olympics under a flag or to give up your personal beliefs, I used Murray as a example (bad example) but my point still stands. It can't just happen in Britian there must be athletes who consider themselves as Basque rather than Spanish for example.
And why is Canada so different from Scotland ? We were conquered too, just because we don't have independence yet ?? The Scots populate were never asked if they wanted to join the union...
It can't just happen in Britian there must be athletes who consider themselves as Basque rather than Spanish for example.
Like those who wanted to take Cornish or Yorkshire flags to the stadium for Helen Glover and Jess Ennis (as examples) but were banned from doing so. Why the organisers were worried about a few different flags being waved lord knows - there's probably a 'policy' on it somewhere, but who the hell would care?
**it's taken me five years to reach a grand total of 1000 posts. how quiet am i? :-D **
It can't just happen in Britian there must be athletes who consider themselves as Basque rather than Spanish for example.
Like those who wanted to take Cornish or Yorkshire flags to the stadium for Helen Glover and Jess Ennis (as examples) but were banned from doing so. Why the organisers were worried about a few different flags being waved lord knows - there's probably a 'policy' on it somewhere, but who the hell would care?
**it's taken me five years to reach a grand total of 1000 posts. how quiet am i? :-D **
I did not know this.... Wow, so basically the London Olympic commitee have decided which flags can be waved at the games, again double standards, I'm guessing there would be an outcry if the Saltire or The Red Dragon was not allowed but Cornish and Yorkshire flags are banned ?!?
I did not know this.... Wow, so basically the London Olympic commitee have decided which flags can be waved at the games, again double standards, I'm guessing there would be an outcry if the Saltire or The Red Dragon was not allowed but Cornish and Yorkshire flags are banned ?!?
And why is Canada so different from Scotland ? We were conquered too, just because we don't have independence yet ??
Dubz
well yes, that kind of is the point if you ask the IOC
The IOC who "claim" to be non-polictical, again I feel it's about choice... If you wanna represent your country then fair enough, but perhaps their should be an "undeclared" catagory for people who don't.
For example say you are hypothetically a Tsibi living an Utuli ruled (non-existant)nation in Africa, you've had years of oppression and your family has been subject to "ethnic cleansing". You can run 100 metres faster than anyone else, the only chance you have of competing at the top of your game is to compete for the oppressors, I know I'm using an extreme example but my point still stands if you wanna compete at the very top level you may have to abandon your personal beliefs. That I feel (in the very spirit of the games) is wrong.
Were the original Olympian games between Rome/Sparta/Greece or were they between athletes competing to be the best in their field ??
I did not know this.... Wow, so basically the London Olympic commitee have decided which flags can be waved at the games, again double standards, I'm guessing there would be an outcry if the Saltire or The Red Dragon was not allowed but Cornish and Yorkshire flags are banned ?!?
And why is Canada so different from Scotland ? We were conquered too, just because we don't have independence yet ??
Dubz
well yes, that kind of is the point if you ask the IOC
The IOC who "claim" to be non-polictical, again I feel it's about choice... If you wanna represent your country then fair enough, but perhaps their should be an "undeclared" catagory for people who don't.
Dubz
well, there is an undeclared (that isn't the name, but I can't remember what is) for recently disolved countries. I think there were 3 athletes in it this Olympics. Perhaps in super extenuating circumstances, a athelete WITH a nation would be able to apply for that. However, given that the olympics are country vs country, I don't think they would allow too many exceptions.
well, there is an undeclared (that isn't the name, but I can't remember what is) for recently disolved countries. I think there were 3 athletes in it this Olympics. Perhaps in super extenuating circumstances, a athelete WITH a nation would be able to apply for that. However, given that the olympics are country vs country, I don't think they would allow too many exceptions.
I did not know that, hmmm, interesting, perhaps rather than apply to/for it, it should be a choice as to whether you are included in this category. Why does it HAVE to be Country v Country, it could be Athlete v Athlete or a mixture of both depending on the athlete's personal beliefs...
well, there is an undeclared (that isn't the name, but I can't remember what is) for recently disolved countries. I think there were 3 athletes in it this Olympics. Perhaps in super extenuating circumstances, a athelete WITH a nation would be able to apply for that. However, given that the olympics are country vs country, I don't think they would allow too many exceptions.
I did not know that, hmmm, interesting, perhaps rather than apply to/for it, it should be a choice as to whether you are included in this category. Why does it HAVE to be Country v Country, it could be Athlete v Athlete or a mixture of both depending on the athlete's personal beliefs...
Dubz
Given what the Olympics is, or is supposed to be, these independent athletes (maybe that is the name?) should be the exception, not the rule.
I don't know why you think it is so bad to represent your country.
There is an Independent category. I think there's a Sudanese athlete in it as the IOC for some reason hasn't split Sudan into North and South. There's two other athletes in the category, not sure what their reason is.
Just because your good self and Megg have differing opinions on this matter does not mean I think any less of either of you.
That's so generous of you, thank you!*
1. Have you ever actually heard of an athlete who would wish they didn't have to compete for their country? Cause I feel like you're making this issue up. Also, in regards to sponsorship - who do you think pays for this? States do. So yes, the only option of funding an athlete to compete is state vs. commercial sponsors. Do you honestly think athletes from, let's say, Jamaica will be able to afford all the preparations, training, gear, travel, accommodation etc. related to the Olympics as private persons, so they would be under "their flag", not their nation's, as you seem to think would be the best idea? Seriously.
2. I'm sure most people are just proud of where they come from (proud without being racist etc.). I come from a nation who didn't have their own country for 150 years. And then came the Nazis. And then came the communists, for another half a century. So anyone in Poland would tell you that's it's considered a great honour to represent our own, independent after centuries of struggle, country. What's wrong with that?
3. Like Kristy said, if you're from a newly independent state, are stateless or are opressed by your government, you can compete as an independent athlete. Check your facts before you start a rant.
4. I feel your approach is not as much related to the Olympics, but to the fact that Scotland isn't independent. Well, I guess that sucks. I'm sorry. Still, that doesn't make the Olympics a racist, Hitler-style event.
5. Olympics are one the most peaceful and honourable ways of competing (and competition is, as we know, part of our nature). I think they do a lot to promote peace and tolerance.
