Travis

   
Re: The
Bryn
Posts: 157
Bryn Posted Tue 21 Oct, 2008 12:52 AM Quote
First, Nikki, that was really good, and I think you've got to be close if not spot on!

Second, to add to this discussion about analyzing.

Here's my view on art, and it's a painful one for artists, because quite frankly it always sucks to give up control: once you create something and offer it up to the public, you have to kind of let go. It's not really yours anymore, because you can't control what people see in it. And truly, if the artist tries to control what people think, that ceases to be art and gets into scary territory.

As for the public who are consuming said art, I think the highest purpose of art is to make people search themselves and find a meaning. I don't think there's ever wasted time in self-awareness, and don't you think that the points we individually pick up on say something about ourselves? So I guess if you look at it that way, OTJS is really art, because it's not easy.

Does that make sense at ALL? If I were trying to sound like even more of a crazy person, I'd say something about the beauty in this thread, where all of us are finding ourselves in our own interpretations. LOL!! Thankfully, I'm not that wacky... and I'm not sure that my dissertation on art really applies here, but it is still how I feel about art in general. Maybe it's just a fun puzzle ;)
 
Re: The
Nikki
Posts: 7519
Nikki Posted Tue 21 Oct, 2008 1:14 AM Quote
Bryn wrote:
First, Nikki, that was really good, and I think you've got to be close if not spot on!

Second, to add to this discussion about analyzing.

Here's my view on art, and it's a painful one for artists, because quite frankly it always sucks to give up control: once you create something and offer it up to the public, you have to kind of let go. It's not really yours anymore, because you can't control what people see in it. And truly, if the artist tries to control what people think, that ceases to be art and gets into scary territory.

As for the public who are consuming said art, I think the highest purpose of art is to make people search themselves and find a meaning. I don't think there's ever wasted time in self-awareness, and don't you think that the points we individually pick up on say something about ourselves? So I guess if you look at it that way, OTJS is really art, because it's not easy.

Does that make sense at ALL? If I were trying to sound like even more of a crazy person, I'd say something about the beauty in this thread, where all of us are finding ourselves in our own interpretations. LOL!! Thankfully, I'm not that wacky... and I'm not sure that my dissertation on art really applies here, but it is still how I feel about art in general. Maybe it's just a fun puzzle ;)


Yep. I agree with you, Bryn.

…and on the subject of artists giving up control of the meaning of their art once it gets out to the public, I really highly doubt the graphic artist who created the Eyeball that adorns the Ode cover, for example, intended it to look like the...female part some boardies are suggesting it resembles. LOL! Although...you never know. That's the whole point! You make it what you want!


 
Re: The
jesusaremus
Posts: 1382
jesusaremus Posted Tue 21 Oct, 2008 1:22 AM Quote
Talking about the artwork, today i see the eye again, and thought something....A broken mirror.
I think, from my poin view, that the artwork is more simple than we expected. A representation of Broken Mirror, and the shattered eye trough the looking glass.
And i think this would make sense. like you were looking that mirror and been "someone like you" as the original artwork of the book said...you own reflection
 
Re: The
Nell
Posts: 1450
Nell Posted Tue 21 Oct, 2008 10:23 AM Quote
BenFilbert wrote:
I'm all for reading into lyrics etc and Nikki and Luke and everyone else has been very clever (a lot cleverer than me) in thinking about what it might mean etc. Because my brain is very literal and i really can't look past the main words.


hehe...reading this - i thought about what's like a biig biig rumour here: Men never (no exeption made) look past the main words...hehe..that's why you don't get those hidden hints when going with a woman ;) haha..

hehe...but you know..people talk....hehe ;)

best example for the counter-evidence are travis itself ;)

;) no offence..really
 
Re: The
martina
Posts: 140
martina Posted Tue 21 Oct, 2008 11:30 AM Quote
Nikki, your story is amazing and really fits with the song! Even if it's not the real one I'm gonna go by that now... LOL.
 
Re: The
Typing to Reach You
Posts: 1667
Typing to Reach You Posted Thu 23 Oct, 2008 12:57 AM Quote
Basically I keep looking at the list of songs, and rethinking it all, and there just seems to be endless possibilities of which order they could go in. But to throw a spanner in the works, here's a chronology that's a bit different to Nikki's.

1. Chinese Blues
2. Get Up
3. Something Anything
4. Song To Self
5. Broken Mirror
6. Long Way Down
7. Quite Free
8 J. Smith
9. Friends
10. Last Words
11. Before You Were Young

I feel that Get Up is second (or in a sense first, if we understand Chinese Blues as a kind of introduction/scene-setter), quite simply because Fran says the album is "about a day in the life" of J. Smith - it makes sense that the day starts by getting up. :P I'm quite happy with Something Anything being third as well. It's a kind of continuation of the feelings expressed in Get Up - of there being nothing worth living for him.

Ok, this chronology puts a lot more emphasis on Long Way Down as being the catalyst in the story. Basically, based on what Fran said, we're thinking J's actual death was accidental, right? His conscious decision to commit suicide (even though he never went through with it) is in Long Way Down (which I see as the epitome of a mental breakdown), so what if he sings his goodbye message in S2S, takes one last look at himself in Broken Mirror, and then attempts to jump off a nice tall building. And then he gets arrested/taken away and put in a cell, maybe just for a few hours until he's calmed down.

However does that mean that he's over the idea of suicide by Quite Free? Perhaps not, but maybe he's starting to think more positively. On the one hand his trapped state both physically and mentally are being acknowledged, but then again he does appear to be expressing affection to Sarah maybe? Either way, his sudden change of heart - his 'new plan' - doesn't come at least completely to him until J. Smith anyway so I don't suppose it matters.

I like the idea of Friends being about Sarah not knowing of J's death, so it could go after J. Smith. Sarah does seems to know about his mental breakdown though ('And I'm glad you're better now'), so it doesn't seem like it could go any earlier than Quite Free in this chronology. Then Sarah discovers J's suicide note in Last Words. This message was actually from his attempt to commit suicide in Long Way Down, but perhaps to Sarah it would seem that his death in the bath was purposeful.

I don't know though, I'm not sure I like this theory, it's just an alternative way of looking at things. And it's late now so I'm going to bed lol.
 
Re: The
Nikki
Posts: 7519
Nikki Posted Thu 23 Oct, 2008 3:12 PM Quote
Typing to Reach You wrote:
Basically I keep looking at the list of songs, and rethinking it all, and there just seems to be endless possibilities of which order they could go in. But to throw a spanner in the works, here's a chronology that's a bit different to Nikki's.

1. Chinese Blues
2. Get Up
3. Something Anything
4. Song To Self
5. Broken Mirror
6. Long Way Down
7. Quite Free
8 J. Smith
9. Friends
10. Last Words
11. Before You Were Young

I feel that Get Up is second (or in a sense first, if we understand Chinese Blues as a kind of introduction/scene-setter), quite simply because Fran says the album is "about a day in the life" of J. Smith - it makes sense that the day starts by getting up. :P I'm quite happy with Something Anything being third as well. It's a kind of continuation of the feelings expressed in Get Up - of there being nothing worth living for him.

Ok, this chronology puts a lot more emphasis on Long Way Down as being the catalyst in the story. Basically, based on what Fran said, we're thinking J's actual death was accidental, right? His conscious decision to commit suicide (even though he never went through with it) is in Long Way Down (which I see as the epitome of a mental breakdown), so what if he sings his goodbye message in S2S, takes one last look at himself in Broken Mirror, and then attempts to jump off a nice tall building. And then he gets arrested/taken away and put in a cell, maybe just for a few hours until he's calmed down.

However does that mean that he's over the idea of suicide by Quite Free? Perhaps not, but maybe he's starting to think more positively. On the one hand his trapped state both physically and mentally are being acknowledged, but then again he does appear to be expressing affection to Sarah maybe? Either way, his sudden change of heart - his 'new plan' - doesn't come at least completely to him until J. Smith anyway so I don't suppose it matters.

I like the idea of Friends being about Sarah not knowing of J's death, so it could go after J. Smith. Sarah does seems to know about his mental breakdown though ('And I'm glad you're better now'), so it doesn't seem like it could go any earlier than Quite Free in this chronology. Then Sarah discovers J's suicide note in Last Words. This message was actually from his attempt to commit suicide in Long Way Down, but perhaps to Sarah it would seem that his death in the bath was purposeful.

I don't know though, I'm not sure I like this theory, it's just an alternative way of looking at things. And it's late now so I'm going to bed lol.


I really like your ideas, Luke. It all makes sense. :) You did a good job explaining J.'s breakdown, where mine focused more on fate and this whole "before you were young = before you were born" baby thing. There's so many different ways you could look at this story. It's probably a combination of both of ours, lol. I think I like the way you have the first half of the songs arranged and we agree on the last half. :)
 
Re: The
Nell
Posts: 1450
Nell Posted Thu 23 Oct, 2008 3:18 PM Quote

sure it's been asked before..but what about the b-sides? especially the song: "sarah"?....
 
Re: The
Nikki
Posts: 7519
Nikki Posted Thu 23 Oct, 2008 3:32 PM Quote
Nell wrote:

sure it's been asked before..but what about the b-sides? especially the song: "sarah"?....


Well, most of us have been calling J.'s girlfriend Sarah. I think if you listen to the words it could be possible...
"He was the one made you fall, but he couldn't help you at all, not at all. So he packed up and jumped from the wall, pushing his luck past the ghosts in the hall."

Used to Belong could fit in as well. It could be J. singing to Sarah. I love both of those songs SO much! Too good to be B-sides. :O)
 
Re: The
Nell
Posts: 1450
Nell Posted Thu 23 Oct, 2008 5:09 PM Quote

yeah that's right...i love this middle-track (sorry my English's on a 1st-year-level hehe)
where he sings something like "in the back of her mind there's a photograph of a child all alone in the dark"

this song made my day...since I can't seem to shake it out of my head...love it (And again: beautiful piano-part)
 
Re: The
owenlee
Posts: 66
owenlee Posted Sat 29 Nov, 2008 9:08 AM Quote
Intriguing!
But I'm just wondering whether a radio falling into a bath could kill a man? :(
 
Re: The
Typing to Reach You
Posts: 1667
Typing to Reach You Posted Sat 29 Nov, 2008 12:02 PM Quote
owenlee wrote:
Intriguing!
But I'm just wondering whether a radio falling into a bath could kill a man? :(


Yes, it could. You'd be fried. Unless it was a battery powered one, in which case I don't think anything would happen. Please don't try it just to find out lol.
 
Re: The
Kimmy256
Posts: 91
Kimmy256 Posted Sat 29 Nov, 2008 12:03 PM Quote
owenlee wrote:
Intriguing!
But I'm just wondering whether a radio falling into a bath could kill a man? :(

yea, not sure about that. maybe a toaster might?
 
Re: The
the boy with a cryptic name
Posts: 2310
the boy with a cryptic name Posted Sat 29 Nov, 2008 12:35 PM Quote
owenlee wrote:
Intriguing!
But I'm just wondering whether a radio falling into a bath could kill a man? :(


Indeed. J. Smith should have used a circuit-breaker. Or one of these bathtubs :)
 
Re: The
owenlee
Posts: 66
owenlee Posted Sat 29 Nov, 2008 2:47 PM Quote
Thank you guys. :P
 
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